Curse

Shadowfox1125 · Feb 08, 2007, 12:51 AM // 00:51

Quote:

Of total sales for the company Lineage accounted for 35 percent, Lineage II 36 percent, Guild Wars 22 percent and City of Heroes/Villains 6 percent.

Wow, who'd think that CoH&CoV have only made 6% of NCsoft's total sales..

You just got tomahawked · Feb 08, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

making less profit != dying

wow...every business makes a little less profit at some time. EVERY BUSINESS.

divinechancellor · Feb 08, 2007, 02:39 AM // 02:39

hand off Anet to someone else?

Oh oh! hand it off to blizz!

I wonder what would happen there///

Flashpoint · Feb 08, 2007, 02:53 AM // 02:53

It looks like NCSoft was right to expand outside their "comfortable" Asian markets. The sales gains in America and especially Europe attest to that and help to cushion any downturns in their home markets.

I wish they'd spend a little more time and money on improving customer support in the U.S., at least. I hope they see it as an investment in future sales. Better training for frontline reps would be helpful, emphasizing the need to resolve problems, not just provide information in the form of boilerplates.

bart · Feb 08, 2007, 03:32 AM // 03:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by divinechancellor

hand off Anet to someone else?

Oh oh! hand it off to blizz!

I wonder what would happen there///

Interesting... maybe we'll see a night elf in GW after all

Kook~NBK~ · Feb 08, 2007, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exoudeous

NCsoft loseing money does not equal anet loseing money

NCsoft is NOT losing money!!!! They just didn't make as much in 2006 as they did in 2005.

Tendaran Fenris · Feb 08, 2007, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Could someone explain to me how NCSoft going bankrupt doesn't affect ANet? Doesn't NCSoft GIVE ANet money to produce the game?

Orinn · Feb 08, 2007, 04:38 AM // 04:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadowfox1125

Wow, who'd think that CoH&CoV have only made 6% of NCsoft's total sales..

Every single one of us who's permanently left CoX because of the constant rounds of nerf hard, tone up a bit so that the players think we're listening, nerf hard again, tone things back up a tiny bit more...

Global Defense nerf. ED. The constant screwing with burn. The entire game past 30 if you have no mez protection. I played CoH for almost 2 years, and ED finally killed it for me. Not to mention that they haven't actualy put out a new box for retail in a while. I'd bet that figure was jsut retail boxes sold, though, and doesn't count the 154,000 subscribers (down from 170,000 for the first 3 quarters) who are still paying to feel like half the hero they used to be.

~A disgruntled ex-player

floppinghog · Feb 08, 2007, 04:54 AM // 04:54

This little debate that came out of this topic is meaningless

Aside from that just how many of the kids here know what their talking about anyway?

rubics · Feb 08, 2007, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tendaran Fenris

Could someone explain to me how NCSoft going bankrupt doesn't affect ANet? Doesn't NCSoft GIVE ANet money to produce the game?

NCSoft is a publisher. Their business is to finance game developers and profit from the sales of successful titles. Since they finance multiple titles, their net profit is the sum of all sales from each successful title, minus all the losses from each failing title. If Guild Wars was the only title that NCSoft published and it was profitable, NCSoft would make a net profit. The complexity arises when factoring in the success of each title they produce. GW could actually be a wild success, and if NCSoft was poorly managed-e.g. they financed a whole bunch of crappy developers-, NCSoft could go under because all the other titles were terrible losses. That said, I wouldn't worry about the effect of NCSoft's solvency on Guild Wars. Arena.net likely has a contract guaranteeing a flat rate for the funding of Chapter 4. They won't get paid any less because CoH isn't selling very well. Moreover, the financial reports sound pretty optimistic for the game we love. Assuming GW was profitable in the previous quarter, it's now selling even more. That gives them more leverage to negotiate a better contract in the future. Depending on the contract's term, Arena.net could conceivably make even more money by pitting NCSoft against another publisher. "Hey EA, give us $10M and let us keep 10% of our sales." "Hey NCSoft, they said okay. Are you going to beat that offer?"

So what would happen if NCSoft flopped and GW was still a successful product line? Someone else would negotiate an agreement with Arena.net to continue publishing their games. So long as Arena.net is profitable, some investor will be willing to give them the money they need to publish Chapter X. As the game grows in popularity, their ability to negotiate a better contract actually goes up.

To make a really informed assessment, though, we'd need to know how much profit each company is generating and compare that with prior profits. If profits are up for that title, no publisher is going to cut funding. If profits are down, then they might. Since GW is a big part of NCSoft's sales, though, it's probably pretty safe to say that they'll seek to keep Arena.net as a developer. Heck, they might even cut them a better deal, which would only be goodness for us. What if NCSoft decided to make GW its flagship title instead of Lineage? What if they decided to invest twice the capital, allowing GW to double it's production staff? What if they wanted to go toe-to-toe with WoW for North America dominance of the MMORPG market? >

Realistically, though? It'll probably be business as usual. No company makes a freakish change in business strategy over a single quarter's decline in profits. Banks and other private investors, which underwrite a lot of the investments publishers make, don't like unstable companies. Shareholders like their guaranteed passive profits.

Enchanted Warrior · Feb 08, 2007, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Interesting...

bart · Feb 08, 2007, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Interesting....

*sorry, couldn't resist* :P

Aeon221 · Feb 08, 2007, 09:58 AM // 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by You just got tomahawked

wow...every business makes a little less profit at some time. EVERY BUSINESS.

You happen to be an idiot.

!= is a logic symbol which means Does Not Equal.

The previous poster to whom you were replying was saying exactly what you attempted to, but much more elegantly.

Lonesamurai · Feb 08, 2007, 10:12 AM // 10:12

Its funny that guild Wars is NCSoft's best (current) seller though... shame they never pushed it more, it could have easily been up there with WoW as it has so many differences it could stand as a seperate purchase

Redfeather1975 · Feb 08, 2007, 10:23 AM // 10:23

So the initial talk about Chapter 4 coming out in August was more than likely closer to being true, although August is just the 2nd month in the 3rd quarter. It might not even be that early.

seut · Feb 08, 2007, 10:59 AM // 10:59

http://arena.net/about.php

Quote:

ArenaNet is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Korea-based NCsoft Corporation

Anet doesn't have the liberty to leave the NCSoft family to look for another publisher. They are in a similar situation like Black Isle was with Interplay. Heads of Interplay made stupid business decisions and Black Isle was sacrificed.

On the other hand NCSoft hasn't had another successful worldwide product launch since Guild Wars came out. It's their star alongside of some cash cows (marketing terms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BCG_growth-share_matrix).

Even if Tabula Rasa flops (TR is the Duke Nukem Forever in the MMO segment) and NCSoft would be in serious financial trouble, Anet wouldn't get axed until the very last.

Lonesamurai · Feb 08, 2007, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by seut

(TR is the Duke Nukem Forever in the MMO segment)

Ok, thats just cold... at least TR has an closed beta about to start... DNF's screenshots will be 10 years old in april...

seut · Feb 08, 2007, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Ok, thats just cold... at least TR has an closed beta about to start... DNF's screenshots will be 10 years old in april...

TR & DNF have some similarities as in development time and getting trashed after a while and getting restarted. I actually hope that both games will be successful and don't turn Daikatana. I still like to play D3D with new open source engines.

Lonesamurai · Feb 08, 2007, 11:37 AM // 11:37

...And Amazon.com taking preorders...

D'Oh!

WARNING: This post may induce crying!***

(I just thought this was hilarious and decided to share it with you guys)

Quote:

Originally Posted by IGN.Com

Amazon Opens Duke Nukem Forever Pre-Orders
But developer claims "they're just trying to get your money".
by Rob Burman, IGN UK

UK, February 5, 2007 - Amazon.co.uk is taking pre-orders for the long-awaited Duke Nukem Forever and has even given the game a speculative release date of September 29, 2007.

However, in a statement on its website 3D Realms, the developer of the much-delayed first-person shooter, dismissed rumours of release dates and even criticised any retailers taking pre-orders. "No, you cannot pre-order the game", it says matter-of-factly. "If you see some online store saying 'we are taking pre-orders', they're just trying to get your money (they usually also make up their own supposed 'insider release date info', too). There is no release date set, we are not taking pre-orders for the game. End of story."

And if that outburst wasn't clear enough, the tirade against release dates continues: "The release date of this game is 'when it's done'. Anything else, and we mean anything else, is someone's speculation. There is no date. We don't know any date. If you have a friend who claims they have 'inside info', or there's some game news site, or some computer store at the mall who claims they know - they do not. They are making it up. There is no date. Period." You've got to pity the guys at 3D Realms, they just can't get a date.

This time line was posted by someone in the official forums back in 2004. The post was deleted:

Quote:

Janurary 1997: Work on DNF started.*

April 1997: Quake 2 engine purchase announced. (they got it in mid-late 1997 before Quake 2 was released). Scott Miller states that he is confident that DNF will be released by mid 1998 and prey in late 1998 making 1998 a bit year for 3DR. He also mentions that his confidence is not misplaced.

August and September 1997: First screenshots in PC gamer (hummer, farmer i think).

May 1998: First DNF E3 video shown. You can see that a lot of work has been done.

Late 1998: 3DR announces switch to Unreal tech. It is expected to take no longer than 6 weeks and 3DRealms says "DNF is a 1999 game."

Mid 1999: 3DR admits that the engine switch took a lot more time than originally estimated.

Late 1999: 3DR announces upgrade to UT level tech. It is expected to take two weeks. 3DR releases a Christmas card saying that DNF will be released in 2000.

2000: I don't think anything happened. They released some sexy screenshots in late 1999/early 2000 (for the time). Broussard begins claiming that DNF development did not start until 1998. Inquiring minds wonder how they got so much done before May (E3) 1998.

May 2001: 3DR comes out of nowhere and puts DNF up at E3. They state that DNF will be released in 2001 and the end of the E3 2001 video says "WID in 2001". Many part of the video bear a clear resemblence to the 1999 screenshots.

October 2001: Broussard posts "sorry guys, it won't be a 2001 release" on the VE3D forums. "Don't worry, the last major hurdle is AI."

Unknown 2001: Broussard states that DNF will definitely be out before Unreal 2.

January 2002: Voodoo Extreme makes a list of top 10 titles to be released in 2002. #1 on that list is Duke Nukem Forever. Someone posts "when will we see something" in the 3DR forums. Broussard responds with "soon".

June 2002: The "soon" thread gets locked.

Unknown 2002: Broussard states that DNF will definitely be out before DooM 3.

2003: Broussard states that DNF has been "on track since early 2002" and that they haven't reached the light at the end of the tunnel, but "they finally found it." He wisps away the years between January 1997 and January 2002 and wishes people would consider DNF's development as if it started in 2002 (this is a strong hint that DNF was far from complete). Unreal 2 released.

Broussard adopts the "DooM 3 and HL2 will have been in development for 5 and 6 years when they're finally released -- DNF isn't taking that much longer" belief (notice: his numbers are very inaccurate).

Late 2003/early 2004: Take 2 complains about DNF development and expects it around "late 2005". "At this point we're just hoping the team [in garland] will finish the project."

2004: Broussard states that DNF development has been on track since "late 2002/early 2003", bumping up his earlier statement in an attempt to fight back release expectations. It is clear, from this behavior, that DNF will not be released this year or next. DooM 3 is released. Half Life 2's release is anticipated this year.

So the most reasonable points in which they could've completely restarted would've been after each of the E3 videos. They could've restarted after the E3 1998 video or after the E3 2001 video. Luckily, you can refute both of these possibilities by simply looking at what Broussard was saying back then -- the Unreal engine upgrade was certainly not expected to require them redoing much. Things were added and tech was changed, things were adopted. This was all stated in interviews with Broussard himself.

It is more difficult to question whether they've restarted at some point after E3 2001. Clearly, in late 2001/early 2002 when Broussard was saying that the last major hurdle was AI and "soon", he could not have just restarted the project. Furthermore, in 2003 he stated that development had been good since early 2002. If this was the case, then there was no point at which he could've restarted (unless you restart while telling fans "the last major hurdle is AI" and "soon").

* "We've actually been working on the game since January." -- Scott Miller, 1997.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Video game systems that have been released in DNF's development time:

Neo Geo Pocket Color
Wonderswan
Dreamcast
Gameboy Advance
N-Gage
Playstation 2
X-Box
Gamecube

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Major releases in prominent game series since first DNF press release on April 25, 1997:

Grand Theft Auto 1, 2, London, III, Vice City, likely San Andreas

Fallout, Fallout 2, All eight (to my knowledge) Infinity Engine games and expansions, and three Baldur's Gate console spinoffs

Final Fantasies VII, VIII, IX, X, X-2 XI, Tactics, Tactics Advance, Crystal Chronicles, Origins, Anthology, Chronicles and the Ergheiz & two Mysterious Dungeon spinoffs

Legend of Zelda: Four Swords, Wind Waker, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Link's Awakening DX, Link to the Past GBA, Legend of Zelda GBA, Oracle of Seasons, Oracle of Ages

Unreal, Return to wherever the **** that was, Unreal Tournament, UT2k3, UT2k4 and at least 4 games off the top of my head that use its engine

Quakes 2 and 3, and God knows how many games used those two engines

Thief 1, 2, 3

The Sims and all seven expansions

Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 1, 2, 2x, 3, 4, Underground

Madden NFL '98, FIFA '98, NBA '98 and NHL '98 for the Super Nintendo, and NHL '98 for both the SNES and Genesis

Might & Magic VI, VII, VIII and IX

With the exception of Meridian 59, every MMORPG apart from MUDs (I may be off here; at any rate UO was released five months after DNF was announced)

Mortal Kombat 4, Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance, and in October Mortal Kombat: Deception

King of Fighters 97, 98, 99, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, Maximum Impact

Tekken 3, Tekken 4, Tekken Tag Tournament and in October Tekken 5

Romance of the Three Kingdoms VI, VII, VIII, IX, Dynasty Warriors 1-4 (and 2 expansions), Samurai Warriors, Kessen 1 & 2, Dynasty Tactics 1 & 2, Mystic Heroes

Every Dance Dance Revolution game

Every Street Fighter III game

Every single Pokémon game released in the US

Every Deer Hunter game

Chessmaster 5500, 6000, 7000, 8000, 9000 with 10th edition out in two months, just on the PC

Twenty (to my knowledge) Mega Man titles, for GBC, GBA, GC and N64, not including direct ports

Thirty (to my knowledge) Star Wars titles, again not including direct ports

And something new! Working Designs is famous for taking absolutely forever to release a product. Since the announcement of Duke Nukem Forever, WD has released Albert Oddesy, Magic Knight Rayearth, Sega Ages (maybe), Raystorm, Elemental Gearbolt, Lunar: Silver Star Story, Sillhouette Mirage, Lunar 2: Eternal Blue, Alundra, Arc the Lad Collection, Raycrisis, ThunderForce V, Vanguard Bandits, Silpheed and Gungriffon Blaze, with Growlanser Generations out in two months. Working Designs CEO Victor Ireland has made approximately 3,710 Usenet posts since the announcement of Duke Nukem Forever.

Also:

The Voyager 1 spacecraft has travelled approximately 2.5 billion miles since the announcement of Duke Nukem Forever.

The rovers Spirit and Opportunity were proposed, authorized, announced, designed, launched and successfully landed upon Mars within the timeframe of Duke Nukem Forever's development.

The majority of the children who were entering high school the school year following Duke Nukem Forever's announcemnt are now eligible to drink.

LOL!

*** Cries of sadness or laughter? upto you!

Faer · Feb 08, 2007, 11:43 AM // 11:43

For those that apparently didn't know this:

"!=" is the symbolic equivalent of "does not equal" or "is not the same as". For example...

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

making less profit != dying

...well, you get the idea.